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Scoring and Reporting

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1 month 4 weeks ago #257711 by Joffm
Replied by Joffm on topic Scoring and Reporting
Hi,
first, as @holch showed above: If you compare with text, you have to use quotes.
So it is: S1Q3b_SQ001 =="Y"
And it's all shown in the manual
 

The IF function?
As in the manual
if(test,result_if_true,result_if_false)
Your test is S1Q3b_SQ001 =="Y"
If this is true, the true_result (70)  is returned else the false_result (0)
{if(S1Q3b_SQ001 =="Y",70,0)}

And if someone selects ALL the options 
This is easy.
The count is equal to the number of options.
{if(count(that.S1Q3b.NAOK)==4,999,0)}
 

Otherwise you just sum the IFs, like
{sum(if(S1Q3b_SQ001 =="Y",70,0),if(S1Q3b_SQ002 =="Y",50,0),if(S1Q3b_SQ003 =="Y",90,0),if(S1Q3b_SQ004 =="Y",65,0))}

If the values are equal for each option (70) you can shorten this to
{count(that.S1Q3b.NAOK)*70}

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1 month 4 weeks ago #257719 by BITCNI
Replied by BITCNI on topic Scoring and Reporting
I'm sorry for being thick, but WHERE do I put this information?  I've looked at the LS Manual for Assessments, and I see you can create Assessment Rules.
They have headings for Name, Minimum, Maximum, and Message.  Do you put (eg), "if(test,result_if_true,result_if_false)" into the Minimum or Maximum boxes?
Am I looking in the wrong manual? 

Is there a different manual for coding?

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1 month 4 weeks ago #257722 by Joffm
Replied by Joffm on topic Scoring and Reporting
You very quickly forget about assessment rules.
At the start of this thread we told you that you may use assessment values (what you do), but assessment rules were outdated when I joined this forum nearly nine years ago.

Weeks ago I wrote, you can enter these equations wherever you want to display this result.
And if you want to calculate more, if you get a final score after calculationg several interim scores, you use several questions of type "equation"

Joffm
 

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1 month 4 weeks ago #257723 by BITCNI
Replied by BITCNI on topic Scoring and Reporting
Sorry, but this is all so far over my head that I am having trouble keeping track of all this.  I'm sure this is very simple to you, but it's very, very complicated for me.

but assessment rules were outdated when I joined this forum nearly nine years ago."

It's genuinely shocking that LimeSurvey STILL has these ancient manuals available!

And regarding "you can enter these equations wherever you want to display this result.", I don't understand this at all.  "Wherever you want"?  Such as?
I feel like I'm missing a VITAL bit of information.  Is there some secret backend area of LimeSurvey where you put in Code?

I am totally lost.  Totally.

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1 month 4 weeks ago - 1 month 4 weeks ago #257730 by holch
Replied by holch on topic Scoring and Reporting

It's genuinely shocking that LimeSurvey STILL has these ancient manuals available!


The manual is a wiki, feel free to help out by updating the manuals. However, in this specific case you shouldn't update anything. The assessment rules are a Limesurvey feature and they CAN be used. I personally wouldn't, as there are better and more flexible options to do the same or actually a lot better. This is what Joffm is trying to tell you.

They are a lot more limited and often require more work than doing the same with equations and expression manager/script. Features like assessment rules or condition designer are still there because people still use them and for some limited use cases they might actually work. And you know how things go: if you get rid of a feature, even if there is a better option, people will complain. A lot. So they are there. They probably will stay forever. I (and Joffm) do not recommend to use them anymore.They are considered "outdated" by many power users, because Limesurvey now has far more flexible and powerful solutions for this to offer (Expressions).

For complicated assessments the assessment feature really isn't a good choice, it doesn't allow you to do more complicated calculations.

Now regarding your issue:

You should really have a look at the manual pages about Expression Manager/Script. I am sure this will change your "life" in terms of Limesurvey. It won't take you much more than 30-60 mins to get a gist of the basics and you will understand how it works. Especially have a look at the examples that come with it. For more complicated approaches you can always go back to the manual later. Or of course ask here in the forum.

Here in the forum we can help you with specific questions, but we really can't teach the basics over and over again. From what I see through your postings you are getting out of the terrain of simple questionnaires into more advanced terrain. You will have to know the basics about expression manager and how to use equations, it will really speed up your processes, I am sure. Once you get an idea of what Expression Manager and Equations can do, you will see a lot of new opportunities.

It is important to have the basic concepts right, then all this will be easy. I know that expression manager can be overwhelming at the beginning, but it actually isn't all that complicated. It is not much different to using formulas or linking results from different cells in Excel.

So here a very general summary: usually you calculate your stuff in equation type questions (which you might want to hide via the GUI AFTER thorough testing, so that respondents don't see them).

To display the results of the calculations that you made, you can show them just like you can show the answers given to any other question by showing them in question texts, answer options, subquestion texts, text display questions, basically anywhere in Limesurvey where you can show some text.

You do this with something like this:
Code:
{CODEOFTHEEQUATIONQUESTION}

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Last edit: 1 month 4 weeks ago by holch.

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1 month 4 weeks ago - 1 month 4 weeks ago #257731 by Joffm
Replied by Joffm on topic Scoring and Reporting
After reading @holch's entire text, 
I removed mine.
It was largely identical

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Last edit: 1 month 4 weeks ago by Joffm.

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1 month 4 weeks ago #257750 by BITCNI
Replied by BITCNI on topic Scoring and Reporting
Thank you for your long reply. I'm not sure if this means that you need to create a Hidden Equation for every single question you want to score, but either way, this all seems way too much for me. Do you know if there are LimeSurvey developers we could pay to do this scoring for us? I know I don't have the time to learn Expression Manager and then to fumble about trying to get scoring done for all the questions in our Survey. I have a full-time job, and it seems that unless we can pay a developer, we'll just have to forget about it. :(

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1 month 4 weeks ago #257761 by Joffm
Replied by Joffm on topic Scoring and Reporting
On the LimeSurvey homepage there is the link to the partners
 

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1 month 4 weeks ago #257790 by holch
Replied by holch on topic Scoring and Reporting

I'm not sure if this means that you need to create a Hidden Equation for every single question you want to score,

This could be one way to do it, but not necessarily. It all depends on your questions and how you want to score them. If attributing a assessment value covers your scores for all questions, you can easily calculate all your scores in one. If you want to calculate more than one score value (e.g. one for each question group or something like that), then it obviously would make sense to create an equation question for each of those calculations you want to make, to store them in the database separately.

but either way, this all seems way too much for me. Do you know if there are LimeSurvey developers we could pay to do this scoring for us?

While I don't think you really need this, Joffm already pointed you to the right place where Limesurvey partners are listed.

I know I don't have the time to learn Expression Manager and then to fumble about trying to get scoring done for all the questions in our Survey. I have a full-time job, and it seems that unless we can pay a developer, we'll just have to forget about it.


As I said, I bet than in less than an hour of reading and maybe another hour of experimenting you probably will be able to set this up on your own and if you run into trouble with specific issues, you can always ask the forum.

What the forum can't do is create the survey for you, but we certainly can have a look at a sample survey (with a couple of example questions) that lets us understand how you want to "score" things and then give you tips and examples.

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1 month 4 weeks ago #257793 by Joffm
Replied by Joffm on topic Scoring and Reporting

that lets us understand how you want to "score" things and then give you tips and examples

That's the crucial point.
Still we do not know how the "scoring" is done.

Is it a simple addition of ALL questions (using the assessment values)?
I really do not believe this.

If you send the more or less final lss with some included "text displays", like
"Here I want to display the sum of questions Q1, Q4, Q7 and Q8"
"Here I want to display the frequency per answer option and mean of all subquestions in the arrays Q2 and Q12"
"Here I want to display texts depending on the sum of Q5, Q6 and Q7" 
we are able to help.

And:
If you have many different calculations it is advisable to use a container (e.g. a question of type "array(numbers)")
Then you can do all calculations in one question of type "equation" and assign the results to the cells of the array.
Like
{Container_Y001_1=sum(that.Q1.valueNAOK,Q3.valueNAOK,Q5.valueNAOK)}
{Container_Y002_1=count(that.Q2.NAOK,Q7.NAOK)*70}
...
All in one question.
You see the "assign"-Operator "=" here.

But as said before: Show us what you want to calculate and what you want to display.

Joffm

 

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1 month 3 weeks ago - 1 month 3 weeks ago #258113 by BITCNI
Replied by BITCNI on topic Scoring and Reporting
Thanks, both, again for your reply.

We have an Excel file that has what each question scores, so we could supply that, which would probably be easier.

Now that I understand that you put this code in an Hidden Equation question, I suppose what's also hard to understand is how do you output this/test it?

If I created a Hidden Equation, then it's hidden.  How would you test that it's working? If I wrote my first equation and wanted to test it out, I presume you have to run the entire survey just to see if your equation worked?  So, I imagine you end up with dozens of dummy Survey responses, which I then download into Excel to see what scores were assigned?

I'm not sure if I was clear with the overall requirement.  Ideally, we'd like some text that gives advice based on the answer supplied, but we also need to download ALL the participants' responses (with Scores, ofc), so that we could do deeper analysis, such as the Average Score for companies in the Construction sector for each question, etc.

I have sent messages to 2 developers listed on the LS Partners' page, but I haven't received a response from either developer.
I've also contacted 2 developers via Fiverr, so I'm hoping at least 1 of the 4 people comes back to me.

I know you think that this is something I could do with a couple of hours reading and playing about, but it's also all the testing that needs to be done to ensure each equation written is working, and having to do (maybe) dozens of test Surveys to ensure it's right is what is really putting me off.  If I were REALLY comfortable writing code and IF there were a fast way to test and implement this, then I might give it a go, but as a complete and utter novice, it seems a huge task that would take probably a week, at least, to (hopefully) get working.

Anyway, I do appreciate all the time you've spent trying to help with this. I wish LS had a simpler Scoring system for novices (with a good and easy GUI), but I think this is really more of a developers' platform and isn't ideal for novices like me :(.  So, as mentioned, I think I'll just have to hope at least 1 Developer comes back to me.
Last edit: 1 month 3 weeks ago by BITCNI.

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1 month 3 weeks ago #258116 by holch
Replied by holch on topic Scoring and Reporting

Now that I understand that you put this code in an Hidden Equation question, I suppose what's also hard to understand is how do you output this/test it?

If I created a Hidden Equation, then it's hidden. How would you test that it's working? If I wrote my first equation and wanted to test it out, I presume you have to run the entire survey just to see if your equation worked? So, I imagine you end up with dozens of dummy Survey responses, which I then download into Excel to see what scores were assigned?


Yes, a hidden equation is hidden. Per definition. :-)

But I am citing myself from a couple of posts before:

So here a very general summary: usually you calculate your stuff in equation type questions (which you might want to hide via the GUI AFTER thorough testing, so that respondents don't see them).


So the hidden equation question will be hidden only AFTER you have tested and everything works.

I'm not sure if I was clear with the overall requirement. Ideally, we'd like some text that gives advice based on the answer supplied, but we also need to download ALL the participants' responses (with Scores, ofc), so that we could do deeper analysis, such as the Average Score for companies in the Construction sector for each question, etc.


Totally possible and actually pretty easy to do (of course it all depends on how complicated your scoring system is!). If you look at the BMI calculation example, you'll have a simple example of how this would work.

having to do (maybe) dozens of test Surveys to ensure it's right is what is really putting me off.


Testing is actually one of the main parts of creating a survey. Probably actually the most time consuming part, especially if the survey is complicated and long. We all have to do this, or we risk that at the end things are wrong. And to be honest, even if you outsource the programming, in my experience you will still have to test thoroughly. Survey programmers (on other platforms, never used a Limesurvey partner) usually do a very bad job at testing their own little creation. If you want to make sure things work, YOU need to test.

We have an Excel file that has what each question scores, so we could supply that, which would probably be easier.


A excel sheet helps, but the survey structure is still important.

How about this: Create a little test survey with the type of questions you want to score. It should be as close as possible to the "real thing", but we are not interested in the whole survey nor the actual content of the survey. But scoring only make sense for a couple of question types anyway. So set up a survey that can represent the question types you want to score e.g. 3-4 questions and post it as a LSS and we can have a look and give you hints on how to score these questions. This will give you a kickstart.

Regarding the Limesurvey partners: Never have used any of them, so I can't say what is going on. Maybe they think your request is too simple, who knows. :-)

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