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1 month 1 week ago #201721 by rudydehaas
A couple of weeks ago I had to stop what I was working on for a few weeks. Unfortunately, my wife found work for idle hands and asked me to look at a problem the university here has - one limesurvey (a tool I have used before and like a lot) is well suited to help with.

Installed from the 4.2.5 and 4.2.8 tar files on debian with gnome/firefox it has two deeply frustrating, but ultimately trivial problems:

1 - no error log. Yes debug=1/2 helps, but it takes a week of scouring the docs to find it - what's wrong with doing what
everyone else does: /var/log/lime/error.log by default? Hosting services simply remap these to user spaces so everyone knows where the default logs are.

The bug turned out to be that some text messages and/or boxes in the gui simply don't show so the user sees nothing to tell him what's expected or what's gone wrong - and when I reported an example consequence of the bug in operation, your bug reporting system silently deleted four of the five screen shots I uploaded because, apparently, it is limited to very small images.

So, please, could Limesurvey get a documented default error log?

And maybe increase the image size allowed on the bug reporting system?

2 - my last serious use of limesurvey was version 2.something and many years ago. The new interface in 4.X is much better (Many Thanks!) however it still has some things to leave a unix user bewildered. For example, I've got 500 faked users in my test CPDB table - display them to move a few to a test survey and the control for that is at the bottom of the screen five pages down - not the top. Took me two hours to find it.

So, please, could you continue the good work in making the GUI layout consistent? and think about the layout in terms of operations on larger numbers: several hundred at a time, not 10.

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1 month 1 week ago #201731 by DenisChenu
Replied by DenisChenu on topic Error logs and GUI
Forum is not the place for feature request.

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1 month 1 week ago #201734 by rudydehaas
Replied by rudydehaas on topic Error logs and GUI
So what is? and why is this forum described as: "Discussion about future features & enhancement - what's needed, what's wanted. Vote for new features on ideas"

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1 month 1 week ago #201865 by DenisChenu
Replied by DenisChenu on topic Error logs and GUI

jelo wrote: My intention for this forum section is to allow people to raise for awareness and discussion about features.

Since LimeSurvey GMBH dev team don't come here : ask for feature request here is subject to … nothing , in french "C'est comme cracher dans l'eau"

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1 month 1 week ago #201868 by DenisChenu
Replied by DenisChenu on topic Error logs and GUI

jelo wrote: …
The feature submission is currently not a curated process.

Even when asking for a agreement to do a pull request … for a new feature.

See bugs.limesurvey.org/view.php?id=15421

And now : you understand why i think plugin is better :) (and adding a good plugin event is the best way)

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1 month 1 week ago #201869 by DenisChenu
Replied by DenisChenu on topic Error logs and GUI
07405 (admin login ssl, not forced for public) : easy to do in plugin

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1 month 1 week ago #201879 by rudydehaas
Replied by rudydehaas on topic Error logs and GUI
Thanks - I posted it on Mantis just now. Hope it's in the right place now.

Two notes:
1 - a bing search for "limesurvey feature requests" returns this page:
www.limesurvey.org/community/feature-requests - and that's a 404.

2 - the thing I'm using Lime for here really needs a plugin. I noticed Denis's .sig and sent him an email asking if he wanted to help with this but he has not responded. Is there a developer forum where people discuss plugin opportunities versus either kludgy survey setups (what I'm doing now to address the U's problem) or adding a generalized capability directly to Lime?

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1 month 1 week ago #201881 by DenisChenu
Replied by DenisChenu on topic Error logs and GUI

rudydehaas wrote: I noticed Denis's .sig and sent him an email asking if he wanted to help with this but he has not responded.

An email ?
Or a contact form ?

What date ?

In general i answer … sometimes to say "sorry : no time" … :(

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1 month 1 week ago #201887 by rudydehaas
Replied by rudydehaas on topic Error logs and GUI
This text: (May 29 at11:07 ; your contact form):
--
Hi:
Having now spent more time reviewing the manual etc I am almost sure of two things:

1 - there probably is a way to do what I want but I don't know what it is; and,

2 - the best approach may be a plugin.

Since your bio says you do plugins can we have an off-line conversation (rudy at winface.com ) about that?

==
What I want to do is:
1 - avoid creating anything requiring local maintenance
2 - automate as much of the process as possible
3 - start with a list of classes: Term, University course ID (number), Faculty course ID (number), Course Name (50), Section ID, Instructor first/last names ; where Term is a date grouping like "Spring 2020". (Usually 300+ classes per term)
4 - foreach class a list of: students: first/last name, student email (usually 20+)
5 - email each student a questionaire with class id info (3 above) preloaded as the answer to a hidden question (I think, better idea??)
6- generate an email to the instructor giving the names of students whose email address failed (bounced or missing)
7- output basic stats for the class response and a csv file containing class responses and faculty wide averages (but blank out those where there are 3 or fewer responses)
8 - preserve anonymous response throughout

I believe I can do all but #8 by adding five attributes to the participants table so something like {token:term} will work (am I right?) but that seems to give up on response anonymity. Is a plugin creating a new table the right answer? or something simpler possible?
---
I have refined the requirement since and have been exploring the code a bit to see how hard this might be and it doesn't look too bad - however:

1 - I don't have the skills or adequate knowledge of the code base to do it quickly; and,

2 - I am inclined to think that adding the required functionality to the core product may be both easier and smarter - particularly with respect to maintenance.

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #201912 by DenisChenu
Replied by DenisChenu on topic Error logs and GUI
My email : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

1 - avoid creating anything requiring local maintenance

? You can not create a system without maintenance. It's impossible.

3 - start with a list of classes: Term, University course ID (number), Faculty course ID (number), Course Name (50), Section ID, Instructor first/last names ; where Term is a date grouping like "Spring 2020". (Usually 300+ classes per term)
4 - foreach class a list of: students: first/last name, student email (usually 20+)
5 - email each student a questionaire with class id info (3 above) preloaded as the answer to a hidden question (I think, better idea??)

Seems totally unrelated to log here.

7- output basic stats for the class response and a csv file containing class responses and faculty wide averages (but blank out those where there are 3 or fewer responses)
8 - preserve anonymous response throughout

Contradiction …

1 - I don't have the skills or adequate knowledge of the code base to do it quickly; and,

Then don't try to search how to do : explain what you want with clear sentence.

2 - I am inclined to think that adding the required functionality to the core product may be both easier and smarter - particularly with respect to maintenance.

See the previous 1 … and clerarly : a lot of things you put are totally unrelated to Survey …

Assistance on LimeSurvey forum and LimeSurvey core development are on my free time.
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Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by DenisChenu.

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1 month 1 week ago #201913 by DenisChenu
Replied by DenisChenu on topic Error logs and GUI

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #201930 by rudydehaas
Replied by rudydehaas on topic Error logs and GUI
You are mixing conversations here. That note is dated May 29th. At the time I wanted to know if you could help by making the plugin. This has nothing to do with logs or guis.

The point of having someone else build and maintain a plugin is that it avoids any need for local maintenance.
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by rudydehaas. Reason: clarity

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1 month 1 week ago #201937 by holch
Replied by holch on topic Error logs and GUI
Rudy, I also think that a plugin is the way to go. And despite his sometimes "rough" outside, I think Denis is probably the best way to go. He is THE guy, when i comes to LS plugin development. No one has more (often free) plugins for Limesurvey than him.

The bug tracker is the way to go for feature requests, but I also don't want to get your hopes too high, because most feature requests never make it anywhere and some are never even aknowledged.

Thus why I recommend to go down the plugin route.

However, I think what Denis means: a plugin will always require maintenance. If it is by you, by the university or by an external developer. and they external developer will most probably charge not only for the development of the plugin, but also for maintenance.

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1 month 1 week ago #201938 by holch
Replied by holch on topic Error logs and GUI
And one other thing: LS 4 is not yet ready for production, in my opinion (and I think most of the frequent posters in the forum like Denis, Tpartner, Jelo and Joffm will most probably agree). I am not sure if LS 4.x will be ready for production until the end of 2020.

We managed to convice them to take away the "stable" from 4.x, but I think it is still not clear enough in the download section that the current way to go for production is 3.x. Tried my best.

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #201941 by rudydehaas
Replied by rudydehaas on topic use of plugins
0 - thanks for the comments

1 - I know LS4 isn't really production ready, but don't much care. It does what I need doing and is better than 3 in many ways. The bugs I know of (particularly the fact that some things simply don't show on a debian/gnome/firefox system are incredibly frustrating and generally evil, but don't really amount to much once you figure them out - I've used expensive commercial software that's much worse for those kinds of undocumented "features."

2 - I'd very much like to talk with a developer about making something more people could easily use to deal with the survey problem I was looking at (rudy at winface dot com) - however, undoubted expertise aside, Denis isn't going to be the guy: between the obvious hostility and the mis-interpretation of everything I say, I can't see us working together on anything more difficult than "hello erde".

I have since gotten the requirement straight - but I'm still unclear on whether this is a plugin (with the implication that plugins extend existing functionality) or a wrapper (with the implication that wrappers provide better ways of using existing functionality ). Right now, I'm leaning toward wrapper and therefore to the idea that this belongs in the core package rather than in an add-on - would love to discuss it with someone knowledgeable.
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by rudydehaas. Reason: spelling

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