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Scoring and Reporting

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1 year 5 months ago #257793 by Joffm
Replied by Joffm on topic Scoring and Reporting

that lets us understand how you want to "score" things and then give you tips and examples

That's the crucial point.
Still we do not know how the "scoring" is done.

Is it a simple addition of ALL questions (using the assessment values)?
I really do not believe this.

If you send the more or less final lss with some included "text displays", like
"Here I want to display the sum of questions Q1, Q4, Q7 and Q8"
"Here I want to display the frequency per answer option and mean of all subquestions in the arrays Q2 and Q12"
"Here I want to display texts depending on the sum of Q5, Q6 and Q7" 
we are able to help.

And:
If you have many different calculations it is advisable to use a container (e.g. a question of type "array(numbers)")
Then you can do all calculations in one question of type "equation" and assign the results to the cells of the array.
Like
{Container_Y001_1=sum(that.Q1.valueNAOK,Q3.valueNAOK,Q5.valueNAOK)}
{Container_Y002_1=count(that.Q2.NAOK,Q7.NAOK)*70}
...
All in one question.
You see the "assign"-Operator "=" here.

But as said before: Show us what you want to calculate and what you want to display.

Joffm

 

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1 year 5 months ago - 1 year 5 months ago #258113 by BITCNI
Replied by BITCNI on topic Scoring and Reporting
Thanks, both, again for your reply.

We have an Excel file that has what each question scores, so we could supply that, which would probably be easier.

Now that I understand that you put this code in an Hidden Equation question, I suppose what's also hard to understand is how do you output this/test it?

If I created a Hidden Equation, then it's hidden.  How would you test that it's working? If I wrote my first equation and wanted to test it out, I presume you have to run the entire survey just to see if your equation worked?  So, I imagine you end up with dozens of dummy Survey responses, which I then download into Excel to see what scores were assigned?

I'm not sure if I was clear with the overall requirement.  Ideally, we'd like some text that gives advice based on the answer supplied, but we also need to download ALL the participants' responses (with Scores, ofc), so that we could do deeper analysis, such as the Average Score for companies in the Construction sector for each question, etc.

I have sent messages to 2 developers listed on the LS Partners' page, but I haven't received a response from either developer.
I've also contacted 2 developers via Fiverr, so I'm hoping at least 1 of the 4 people comes back to me.

I know you think that this is something I could do with a couple of hours reading and playing about, but it's also all the testing that needs to be done to ensure each equation written is working, and having to do (maybe) dozens of test Surveys to ensure it's right is what is really putting me off.  If I were REALLY comfortable writing code and IF there were a fast way to test and implement this, then I might give it a go, but as a complete and utter novice, it seems a huge task that would take probably a week, at least, to (hopefully) get working.

Anyway, I do appreciate all the time you've spent trying to help with this. I wish LS had a simpler Scoring system for novices (with a good and easy GUI), but I think this is really more of a developers' platform and isn't ideal for novices like me :(.  So, as mentioned, I think I'll just have to hope at least 1 Developer comes back to me.
Last edit: 1 year 5 months ago by BITCNI.

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1 year 5 months ago #258116 by holch
Replied by holch on topic Scoring and Reporting

Now that I understand that you put this code in an Hidden Equation question, I suppose what's also hard to understand is how do you output this/test it?

If I created a Hidden Equation, then it's hidden. How would you test that it's working? If I wrote my first equation and wanted to test it out, I presume you have to run the entire survey just to see if your equation worked? So, I imagine you end up with dozens of dummy Survey responses, which I then download into Excel to see what scores were assigned?


Yes, a hidden equation is hidden. Per definition. :-)

But I am citing myself from a couple of posts before:

So here a very general summary: usually you calculate your stuff in equation type questions (which you might want to hide via the GUI AFTER thorough testing, so that respondents don't see them).


So the hidden equation question will be hidden only AFTER you have tested and everything works.

I'm not sure if I was clear with the overall requirement. Ideally, we'd like some text that gives advice based on the answer supplied, but we also need to download ALL the participants' responses (with Scores, ofc), so that we could do deeper analysis, such as the Average Score for companies in the Construction sector for each question, etc.


Totally possible and actually pretty easy to do (of course it all depends on how complicated your scoring system is!). If you look at the BMI calculation example, you'll have a simple example of how this would work.

having to do (maybe) dozens of test Surveys to ensure it's right is what is really putting me off.


Testing is actually one of the main parts of creating a survey. Probably actually the most time consuming part, especially if the survey is complicated and long. We all have to do this, or we risk that at the end things are wrong. And to be honest, even if you outsource the programming, in my experience you will still have to test thoroughly. Survey programmers (on other platforms, never used a Limesurvey partner) usually do a very bad job at testing their own little creation. If you want to make sure things work, YOU need to test.

We have an Excel file that has what each question scores, so we could supply that, which would probably be easier.


A excel sheet helps, but the survey structure is still important.

How about this: Create a little test survey with the type of questions you want to score. It should be as close as possible to the "real thing", but we are not interested in the whole survey nor the actual content of the survey. But scoring only make sense for a couple of question types anyway. So set up a survey that can represent the question types you want to score e.g. 3-4 questions and post it as a LSS and we can have a look and give you hints on how to score these questions. This will give you a kickstart.

Regarding the Limesurvey partners: Never have used any of them, so I can't say what is going on. Maybe they think your request is too simple, who knows. :-)

Help us to help you!
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  • Always provide a LSS file (not LSQ or LSG).
Note: I answer at this forum in my spare time, I'm not a LimeSurvey GmbH employee.

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1 year 5 months ago #258121 by Joffm
Replied by Joffm on topic Scoring and Reporting

If I created a Hidden Equation, then it's hidden.  How would you test that it's working?

Of course, it is not hidden.

Initially you do NOT hide the equation.
You set "Always hide this question  OFF"
So it is visible to test.
When everything is fine and you publish the survey you hide the equation with the setting "Always hide this question  ON".

Ideally, we'd like some text that gives advice based on the answer supplied, but we also need to download ALL the participants' responses (with Scores, ofc), so that we could do deeper analysis, such as the Average Score for companies in the Construction sector for each question, etc.

We know that.
And to be honest, IT IS EASY.
ExpressionScript is nothing else what we all learned at school.
{12+23+1} will display 36, or you say {sum(12,23,1)}
You use some functions to calculate things.
To sum things you use the function sum(), to count you use the function count(). And you use the same operators like "+", "-", "*", "/"
Additgionally there are some "special" functions and variables that ease your life, like "sumif()", "sumifop)", "countif()", "countifop)" and the ".that" variable, which can shorten some functions immensely.
And for your scoring you do not need more.

I often advice to use a "container", a question of type "multiple short text" or "multiple numeric" with as many subquestions as you want to calculate scores.
Then you only need one question of type "equation" where you calculate the scores and write it into this "container, like
{QCont_1=sum(Q1.valueNAOK,Q2.valueNAOK,Q3.valueNAOK)/100}
{QCont_2=sum(that.Q4.valueNAOK,that.Q5.valueNAOK)/count(that.Q4.NAOK,that.Q5.NAOK)}
...
all in one question
​​​​​​​Only one "=" because you assign a value and do not compare.


But unfortunately you still neither provided the survey with the final assessment values (you know, multiplied *100, or so) nor a plan which questions belong to one score, which to another.
like (just an example)
score1: Sum of Q2, Q4, Q13(subquestions Y1,Y2,Y4,Y5) and Q14; if <20 "You can improve", if<40,"Well done" else "Super fantastic, great"
score2: Mean of Q5, Q6; if <2 "You can improve" else "Super fantastic, great"
​​​​​​​
As written several times.
We can not help without the information.

Joffm


 

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1 year 5 months ago #258127 by Joffm
Replied by Joffm on topic Scoring and Reporting
Small example to show what I tried to explain
1. A simple array with
  • normal and reverse items
  • assessment values (in brackets)
 

2. The "equation" question
{QCont_1=sum(that.Q1.NAOK)}
{QCont_2=sum(that.Q1.valueNAOK)/100}
{QCont_3=sum(that.Q1.NAOK)/count(that.Q1.NAOK)}
{QCont_4=sum(that.Q1.valueNAOK)/count(that.Q1.NAOK)/100}
{QCont_5=sum(sum(that.Q1.sq_N.NAOK),count(that.Q1.sq_R.NAOK)*6,-1*sum(that.Q1.sq_R.NAOK))}
{QCont_6=sum(sum(that.Q1.sq_N.NAOK),count(that.Q1.sq_R.NAOK)*6,-1*sum(that.Q1.sq_R.NAOK))/count(that.Q1.NAOK)}{QCont_7=countifop(">","2",that.Q1.NAOK)}
{QCont_8=countifop(">","0",that.Q1.valueNAOK)}


3. The "container" where you store the results
4. The text depending on the value
 

Joffm

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1 year 5 months ago #258451 by BITCNI
Replied by BITCNI on topic Scoring and Reporting
Thank you so much for all the help you've provided. I think one of the problems is that I don't understand the 'back end' of LS. For example, when you say the "Container", my next question would be "Where do I go to create 'Containers'?".

I realize that I may have been able to spend an hour or so reading and another hour or so practicing, but there seems to be so much trial and error involved on my part, and as a novice, I could just foresee so many more questions and mistakes on my part.

We also have to launch this Survey in April, and we're already in the 2nd week of March, so time is tight.

I did reach out to a LS Developer, and we're getting a quote to implement this scoring and reporting, which is just more more logical at this late stage in the game.

We will have more surveys to do, so I'm sure I'll be back here again with (I hope) simpler questions about those surveys.

I REALLY do appreciate all the time and effort you've put into trying to help, but this was just too much for a novice when there's so little time left.

Thank you again so much for everything. You've been really kind.

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1 year 5 months ago - 1 year 5 months ago #258530 by Joffm
Replied by Joffm on topic Scoring and Reporting

I often advice to use a "container", a question of type "multiple short text" or "multiple numeric" with as many subquestions as you want to calculate scores.

I used this word "Container" to describe something where I can store many things in one place, like a real container.
And as this "container" you can use any question that allows the storage of multiple items, like
"multiple short text"
"multiple numerical input"
"array(text)"
"array(numbers)"

You saw the example where I stored the results of several equations into the "container", which is in this case a "multiple numerical input".
This is obvious:
It's a question (QCont) with subquestions (1,2,3,4,5,...)
The display is right aligned -> numbers

I see the advantage: Only one question of type "equation" needed and one question to store the results

We also have to launch this Survey in April, and we're already in the 2nd week of March, so time is tight.

I don't remember, how many times we asked for your final survey and an explanation which question have to be scored, in which way, where to display the result, etc.

But unfortunately you still neither provided the survey with the final assessment values (you know, multiplied *100, or so) nor a plan which questions belong to one score, which to another.
like (just an example)
score1: Sum of Q2, Q4, Q13(subquestions Y1,Y2,Y4,Y5) and Q14; if <20 "You can improve", if<40,"Well done" else "Super fantastic, great"
score2: Mean of Q5, Q6; if <2 "You can improve" else "Super fantastic, great"

As written several times.
We can not help without the information.



Joffm

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Last edit: 1 year 5 months ago by Joffm.

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1 year 5 months ago #258628 by BITCNI
Replied by BITCNI on topic Scoring and Reporting
Sorry if I misunderstood something you said, but I inferred that I was still going to have to create the containers and do the scoring. Was I wrong to infer that. Did you mean that if I had supplied the Questions with Scores that you were going to create the Survey for us?

If I misunderstood you, then I'm really sorry, and that was beyond kind. Definitely my bad, then :(

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1 year 5 months ago #258633 by holch
Replied by holch on topic Scoring and Reporting

Did you mean that if I had supplied the Questions with Scores that you were going to create the Survey for us?


He means that he would have helped you to get where you needed to get.

That is what we were talking about. Once you would have given us real life examples, we would have been able to show you how to do the scoring, etc.

We wouldn't have created the survey for you, but we would have given you the knowledge to do it.

Once you would have understood the idea behind all this, you would have easily created your own survey.

And with specific questions, you could have always come to the forum.

I think that is what Joffm wanted to say.

Help us to help you!
  • Provide your LS version and where it is installed (own server, uni/employer, SaaS hosting, etc.).
  • Always provide a LSS file (not LSQ or LSG).
Note: I answer at this forum in my spare time, I'm not a LimeSurvey GmbH employee.
The following user(s) said Thank You: BITCNI

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