Hello:

I have combed the documentation and searched the forums, and cannot get an answer to my question.

The first question of the survey below, shows the gist of what I'm trying to accomplish. Unfortunately it has the "Questions" as the columns, and not as the rows. Yep, I am trying to do a 5-point array question, but with answers/headers I designate—not the one-thru-five default answers. I also do like the "No Answer" option and wish to retain that, for this.

Help? survey.qubes-os.org/index.php?r=survey/index&sid=137242&lang=en

Version 3.23.6+200929

Obviously you use an array by column.
Use a simple array.

See here
www.limesurvey.org/manual/Question_type_-_Array
with video and sample survey.


Reading a documentation is not always a waste of lifetime.

Joffm

I did see that in the documentation, thank you; and I have exhaustively tried to make sense of the documentation. I am not a developer, I am a researcher; and much of the language of the documentation, requires knowledge of development/software concepts and to understand.

Unfortunately, for usability reasons the simple numbers in the headers are inadequate to obtain accurate results. "I like it very much" and "I do not like it at all" as two polarities, with numeric headers, are together not a clear enough mental model to obtain clear answers.

Is there a way for me to edit those headers, to put words in them instead of the numbers?

TY!

Ok, I figured it out!

1. I could not find the video; I expected an embedded video, and did not see that there were links. It could help if the links could be underlined, as the contrast between the green and the gray is very low which makes hyperlinks difficult to discover in text.

2. The video is of a different version of LimeSurvey than what I have; which is part of why videos are problematic in documentation. It's impossible to keep them up to date.

3. The documentation could more easily simply instruct users to a) Select Question-type "Array (D)," and to set the custom headers through "Answer Options" and the questions as "Sub-Questions."

Much of the difficulty with the documentation, is that it explains the interface as a developer sees it, in language comfortable to developers. Step-by-step instructions that assume no knowledge of development concepts such as "Expressions" or "Exceptions" etc., would be helpful.

TY!!

I am not a developer, I am a researcher;

We know this. You repeated it several times.
In my opinion more than 90% of LS users are neither developers nor researchers.
We read your several posts.

And here I want to support @holch's answer.
forums.limesurvey.org/forum/future-featu...able?start=15#205818

To add:
Feel free to improve the manual, improve and extend the translation of the manual (as ritapas is doing now for Italian).
Feel free to contact the developers with substantial proposals.
There are many ways to contribute to make this open source software better.

Joffm

Much of the difficulty with the documentation, is that it explains the interface as a developer sees it, in language comfortable to developers.

This is because it often is written by developers.

And here is the problem: Unfortunately it seems like only people with a certain background are trying to give back to the project. There are so many companies that are using Limesurvey for free, which is cool. But you hardly see anyone getting involved with giving back to the project. This means, that at the end, who is writing the documentation? The developers. Good thing is, this documentation is a Wiki and basically anyone could improve on it, but there are not many users that are getting involved with it. LS has quite a lot of features and thus it is difficult to keep everything up to date.

And even Joffm and me, who I would classify more like researchers, we do have a certain knowledge with programming/development, so we are biased and won't always see if something is from a developer view.

Here the help of the broader community would be needed, but of course many will not spend their spare time on improving the manual, translate into a language, help out in the forum, etc.

E.g. in my opinion the 5 point array could be thrown out, because you can create it easily with the normal standard array question type. You can create any scale with it (within reason of course, the viewport usually is not infinite). But Limesurvey has grown slowly into what it is today. If you take one feature out, there will be an outcry of some older users, because they are used to this and that, etc.

There is a lot of space for improvement in Limesurvey, on the other hand it is one pretty capable software for an OSS tool, in my opinion. The learning curve might be slightly steeper as with "the monkeys", I admit.

There is certainly a lot of room for improvement, but resources are pretty limited and somehow all this needs to be financed somehow. You can be sure, LS is not swimming in money. ;-

Holch, I am already spread incredibly thin between multiple open-source projects. Why are you assuming that I am not?!

My primary critique that LS GmbH needs to hire and retain a staff designer to maintain a modicum of usability standards across artifacts, stands. Designers make far less than developers, and cannot be expected to volunteer to fix all the usability things, on the rationale that usability is less fundamental than code.

I did read the documentation. Several times. Someone asserting that there really was a video in the documentation, was the only thing that got me to find the hidden hyperlink. Just the usability point that you guys over-use the green (which is the same contrast as the gray, and has no underline) and that hyperlinks are subsequently not clearly distinguishable, is a big problem that I'm not able to fix with a wiki-style contribution.

I already provided feedback above, on how to make the documentation better. LS leadership could also stand to do some recruiting in UX communities, for contribution. Likewise, I found it to be incredibly distasteful that I'm offering feedback, while being admonished for using a "free" product; when the entire reason I'm using the "free" version, is for security reasons. Get a "Donate" button on the website, and maybe some of us would donate—but imposing expectations of Capitalistic commerce in a FOSS community is gross.

Every FOSS project I work on, has funding from grant programs. The funding is measly, but it exists. Lime could easily secure grants funding fund a single designer, if it wanted to. It needs to prioritize that. Many more will flock, when that one hire is made. Few of us are keen to volunteer where our craft is not valued by paying at least one full time contributor.

If the documentation really does not require any Git and is as easy as a wiki, yes, I'll maybe try to prioritize the time to make that one fix; but then that would make that part of the documentation inconsistent with the rest. And, it would not fix the usability problem with undiscoverable hyperlinks.

Holch, I am already spread incredibly thin between multiple open-source projects. Why are you assuming that I am not?!

Well, now you are assuming that I am assuming...

I am not talking about you, I am talking about the general situation. As you are helping in other OSS projects, I guess you see similar things. Many users just use the software and don't give back. As I said, this is OK, because it is the decision of the team to provide a software as OSS and free of charge.

Also, we can not support every OSS software that we are using from time to time. I use a couple of OSS softwares, but I only really give back to LS (which I actually don't use this much, but I like it).

This is all fine. I am just trying to explain why things might be as they are.

I don't know you and what you do, you don't know me and we both have little insight on what is going on within the inner Limesurvey circle. So it is hard to judge.

Your feedback in the forum is basically lost, because the forum is mainly maintained by volunteers like Joffm, Denis, Tpartner, Jelo, me and a couple of others that show up now and then. From the core developers, few show up in the forum. Especially at the moment, as they are busy to fix issues in LS 4.x, which is/was a mess.

When it comes to UI and usability, I have little hope that there will be a change any time soon. I think there was a plan to get a interface designer on board at one point, but I don't know how this turned out and when this might happen. I think the current focus is on getting LS 4 stable, everything else is on hold.

Changes to the UI might happen for LS 5.x at the earliest. If at all. Which is sad, but makes sense to me in the current situation.

I think improvements to the UI will be something very long term, and currently I have very little hope that there will be a very structured approach to the UI, given the experiences from the past. So if you expect to see any quick and deep changes to the UI any time soon: don't!

You will need to be happy with very little baby steps, if not the new CEO (started last week) will bring a complete turnaround.

So... my own observation: I'm not used to seeing people in FOSS user (not developer, but user) forums either a) Shame customers for not using a paid version of a product, or b) Suggest they actively contribute, when they're reporting problems. Both, I have found to be disheartening and off-putting.

I'm naturally inclined to give back, once I've finished something and have had some space to breathe. That is how I've gotten involved in all my projects to date. Having it be suggested that I give back when I am in the midst of trying to figure-out how to simply get something to work, is poor timing. I've not observed it to be a common practice. Positive community experiences, and open calls for contribution is what I've observed to be the strategy, there.

LimeSurvey also has no Code Of Conduct. A man identified as the project founder, posted a popcorn.gif as the final comment on my first thread, with the comment "That escalated quick!"; a thread in which the first commenter, was a complete dick. The community here also appears to be all dudes.

Honestly, had it not been for that one dick and the lack of a Code of Conduct, I likely would make some contributions to the documentation once I'm done with my current survey. But I'm not inclined, in a community that supports public admonishment in threads.

LimeSurvey is a powerful product, and has a LOT of potential to be great. It even has a lot of potential to be significantly more usable with only text-based changes. I had to reset my password tonight, and the primary action button on the screen to submit my new password said "send data" all lowercase. Instead of "Submit." The form fields were also prefilled with bullets, but had no data in them. The UX is really THAT bad.

I hope the new CEO takes the time to apply for funds to hire a proper UX resource, and that he prioritizes community health. There are some lovely contributors here, but it's creepy that I haven't seen any whom openly identify as women... and the lack of a Code of Conduct, and the lack of a separate place to submit one-way "feedback," are big problems. Very easy problems to fix, and without too much time involved. They take a person wanting positive change to happen.

Not holding my breath though, because change in FOSS is *always* slow. LOL. None of us use FOSS because we desire speed or efficiency, though. Ethics being prioritized, however, is expected.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and community presence.

ninaviz wrote: b) Suggest they actively contribute, when they're reporting problems.

If you talk pf your 1st message , it's more a hangry message than something else.


I already use a lot of FLOSS and contribute to some but i NEVER go to any FLOSS tool starting by "Your product is crap" …

It's what i understand in your 1st message on forum …

PS : i think LS 4.X is crappy comparing to 3.X or 2.6lts …

Denis! The unprofessional, misogynistic jerk from my first ever conversation in this community. Thanks for bowing to my goddessness in this thread.

"Your product is crap," I do not believe was ever stated, nor the gist of that thread.

"Please stop making new features to make usable the ones that exist, and here is why" was the gist of that thread. As I stated a few times already: saying such a thing in a community was a LAST RESORT, as Lime has made it impossible for customers to reach out to them, outside these communities. Which is toxic af for community development and rather narcissistic of them, imho.

Was I frustrated? Hell yes. Why? Because NONE of the product made any damn sense to somebody who's not a developer... and documentation that only expands upon what is evident in the UI through the lens of how developers see things, makes non-developer users want to cry. Which the leadership of a product team needs to hear, if that is the case.

You never needed to chime-in on that one, but you did. I owned my mistakes, you have yet to make a single apology or even a small offering of humility. People like you are why there are so few women in open source, and fewer designers. Just stuff a sock in it, and bug off.

ninaviz wrote: Denis! The unprofessional, misogynistic jerk from my first ever conversation in this community. Thanks for bowing to my goddessness in this thread.

OK, thank you … your so kind with me , i'm really happy.